Overcoming Stigma: Real Talk on Mental Health and Recovery

Jim Burgoon: 00:00:00

Welcome to Grace and the Grind, the podcast where we dive deep into the journeys of heart centered and purpose driven leaders and entrepreneurs.

Jim Burgoon: 00:00:09

We're here to equip and encourage you on your journey.

Jim Burgoon: 00:00:12

So let's get started and find the grace within the grind.

Jim Burgoon: 00:00:16

This is Grace in the Grind.

Jim Burgoon: 00:00:19

And now your host, Jim Burgoon.

Host: 00:00:22

Welcome to Grace in the Grind, where we're here to empower, to encourage, and to equip you to do all that God has called you to do.

Host: 00:00:28

And today I have actually two friends with me, which was, which is real fun.

Host: 00:00:33

This is our first time.

Host: 00:00:34

We're doing a, basically a panel episode.

Host: 00:00:36

I've got my friend Dave and Richard, and they're gonna take a second to introduce themselves.

Host: 00:00:40

But guys, as we go into this episode, make sure you hit the follow button and then make sure you also engage because we'd love to hear from you.

Host: 00:00:47

We'd love to hear some questions and things on this show and maybe future shows.

Host: 00:00:51

So, guys, Dave, Richard, welcome to the show today.

Dave: 00:00:54

Thank you so much, man.

Dave: 00:00:55

I'm so excited.

Host: 00:00:56

So let's, let's do this.

Host: 00:00:57

So, so that the audience have an understanding of who's here today.

Host: 00:01:01

Let's do about 90 seconds to just give us a quick intro.

Host: 00:01:04

What do you do?

Host: 00:01:05

Who'd like to go first?

Richard Kaufman: 00:01:08

David is the man with.

Richard Kaufman: 00:01:09

The man with the plane.

Dave: 00:01:11

All right, David, I'll go.

Dave: 00:01:13

No problem.

Dave: 00:01:14

So, so, Dave Chimetzky, what I do is I help people write their stories, get their stories on stages, or create a podcast like this.

Dave: 00:01:22

You know, it's all about aligning ourselves.

Dave: 00:01:23

And we'll talk about that a little bit later.

Dave: 00:01:25

But it's, you know, the Grace and the Grind is really all about aligning ourselves, not only for business, but in our personal lives.

Dave: 00:01:33

So we'll talk a little bit more.

Dave: 00:01:34

And you see my little name under there, the Goonfather.

Dave: 00:01:37

I also have a charity called Goons for Good.

Dave: 00:01:39

Part of my alignment of who I am and what I do.

Dave: 00:01:44

And, you know, being on the show with you, Jim and Richard, man, I align myselves with amazing humans like yourselves.

Host: 00:01:51

Well, thank you, Sarah.

Host: 00:01:52

Richard, let's.

Host: 00:01:53

Let's hear from you.

Richard Kaufman: 00:01:54

My name is Richard Kaufman, also known as the Comeback Coach.

Richard Kaufman: 00:01:59

I'm an author, podcaster, speaker, but most of all, I'm somebody that went from dope dealer to hope dealer.

Richard Kaufman: 00:02:07

So for me, now I'm just trying to help people struggling in life and business and also help people launch podcasts like mine that has been.

Richard Kaufman: 00:02:15

That's hit the top point five percent in the world.

Richard Kaufman: 00:02:18

And it's all about paying it forward.

Host: 00:02:20

Awesome.

Host: 00:02:21

Yeah.

Host: 00:02:21

I want to, I want to say just a shout out to you because I know you just hit 2.5 million downloads on your podcast, man.

Host: 00:02:27

So just congratulations on that.

Host: 00:02:29

I'm very excited, dude.

Host: 00:02:31

Very excited for that.

Richard Kaufman: 00:02:32

God is good.

Host: 00:02:34

He is all the time.

Host: 00:02:36

So with you guys both having, you know, for you.

Host: 00:02:39

Richard, who says, the mental health advocate, David, you have a big background helping people with mental health.

Host: 00:02:44

Let's start there because I find that mental health is a big topic that is oftentimes not talked about.

Host: 00:02:51

So with that being said, how did you guys get into being advocates or helping people with mental health?

Host: 00:02:58

How did you guys get into that whole theme or that whole niche that, that you guys are working in?

Dave: 00:03:03

I guess I'm starting.

Dave: 00:03:05

I got in because I got thrown to the deep end.

Dave: 00:03:07

You know, life got a little too much for me and I sought out mental help.

Dave: 00:03:12

And truthfully, back in the day, when I started in college, I was taking behavioral sciences.

Dave: 00:03:18

That's what I got my bachelor's degree in.

Dave: 00:03:20

People bring you through sometimes really slowly, and then other times he's going to bring you by pushing you down the flight of stairs.

Dave: 00:03:28

And I only learn when I get pushed down the flight of stairs.

Dave: 00:03:32

And, you know, and that's really how it came.

Dave: 00:03:34

It started building upon it.

Dave: 00:03:36

And then I started seeing where God was bringing me.

Dave: 00:03:39

And I didn't even admit that it was God, but I was like, all right, all these things align up in a way that's become so much more powerful.

Dave: 00:03:47

And you see that, you see that through line.

Dave: 00:03:51

And that's why it's so important to know what our through line is.

Dave: 00:03:54

We take the time out of our traumas, remove ourselves out of those traumas, then have the ability to see much more clearly.

Dave: 00:04:03

Right?

Dave: 00:04:04

Nobody believed Moses, you know, at the beginning, and then at the end they followed him.

Dave: 00:04:09

That's what we need to do as all of us is having that ability to see, follow through our vision when others can.

Dave: 00:04:16

And then they start going, I get it now, it's your vision.

Dave: 00:04:20

But it comes through a lot of different ways.

Richard Kaufman: 00:04:22

For me, I'm in recovery 36 years.

Richard Kaufman: 00:04:26

I haven't had a drink since: 1989

Richard Kaufman: 00:04:29

I'm a two time suicide survivor.

Richard Kaufman: 00:04:32

So I'm 60, blind, due to, due to, in the military.

Richard Kaufman: 00:04:38

So I've had to come back a lot.

Richard Kaufman: 00:04:41

And, and I figured there's more people out there like me, so why don't I just, you know, take the bullets for them while they're, while they're getting up and trying to get healthy again.

Richard Kaufman: 00:04:51

So that's what I believe.

Richard Kaufman: 00:04:53

And I believe that you can't really help somebody that's in the storm unless you've been in the storm.

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:02

You can reach out, reach down and help them up because they know you've been there, you've done that.

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:08

And you can.

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:09

And you can tell.

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:10

You're not just telling stories, you're actually telling war stories.

Host: 00:05:14

So what do you guys find that's been the hardest challenge?

Host: 00:05:17

Like, so, like, if, for you guys who are listening, if you, if you heard my story, my wife is diagnosed with multiple mental illnesses.

Host: 00:05:25

I have CPTSD and a few things.

Host: 00:05:27

And so, like, what do you find has been the most challenging in working with people with this and, or actually having people open up about this?

Host: 00:05:37

What have you been finding the most challenges?

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:40

Well, recently.

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:41

I'm sorry, recently it's been people in recovery because they're telling me, well, you're supposed to be anonymous.

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:49

You're not supposed to tell your story.

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:51

You're not supposed to be in press, radio and film.

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:54

And I'm in all of that.

Richard Kaufman: 00:05:56

I figure I can help millions of people instead of just being in a room with 10 people.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:00

And so I'm getting on by a lot of people that are in the recovery space.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:05

It's kind of weird.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:06

They're like, wait a minute, we're supposed to be an anonymity.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:09

And I'm like, I won't tell about you.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:12

You know, I'll tell about me, but I'm not going to tell about you.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:15

If, if I see you in a meeting that stays between us.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:18

I don't, I'll never say that.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:20

But people are like, well, you know, according to the big book, you know, press, radio and films, you're supposed to have anonymity.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:27

Well, I got a movie coming out and it's all about what we're talking about.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:31

So.

Richard Kaufman: 00:06:32

And a lot of people don't think you, you get on by the people that are in the recovery circles, but it happens a lot.

Dave: 00:06:38

Yeah.

Dave: 00:06:38

And go on.

Dave: 00:06:40

That is the stigma.

Dave: 00:06:41

Right.

Dave: 00:06:42

So if Richard wants to tell his story or anybody wants to tell their story, it's their story.

Dave: 00:06:47

Now, if Richard's telling my story, that's the confidence.

Dave: 00:06:50

And I know he wouldn't, you know, unless I've allowed it.

Dave: 00:06:53

And that's why I share my story.

Dave: 00:06:55

And that's part of the problem we have in society.

Dave: 00:06:59

Hey, Jim, you have a problem.

Dave: 00:07:00

Just don't tell anybody.

Dave: 00:07:02

Why don't you sit down.

Dave: 00:07:02

Yeah, it's nice.

Dave: 00:07:04

And that's it.

Dave: 00:07:05

No, it's the opposite.

Dave: 00:07:07

So I also, you know, to add on to that, what happened with my story, I attempted suicide.

Dave: 00:07:13

And during my attempt, it said, you have to go tell your story.

Dave: 00:07:16

It's not your time.

Dave: 00:07:17

Go tell your story.

Dave: 00:07:19

And I didn't realize it until recently.

Dave: 00:07:21

I thought it was just about the mental wellness.

Dave: 00:07:23

I'm an author also, and as I'm writing this other book, I had a download from God, and he goes, it's not only your story.

Dave: 00:07:31

Don't think, you know, like, almost as a joke, don't think you're so special that it's about your story.

Dave: 00:07:38

It's the idea of curating that safe space, removing those stigmas.

Dave: 00:07:43

Because in the substance abuse I worked, I was a recovery coach.

Dave: 00:07:46

This horrible stigmas.

Dave: 00:07:47

When you hear about recovery, what do you see?

Dave: 00:07:50

You see the needle and the spoon.

Dave: 00:07:52

You want to know one trick?

Dave: 00:07:54

What's horrible about that?

Dave: 00:07:55

It's dirty, right?

Dave: 00:07:56

Even in the language we use.

Dave: 00:07:58

Are you clean?

Dave: 00:07:59

No, no, we'll always clean.

Dave: 00:08:01

Or maybe not.

Dave: 00:08:02

Maybe you didn't shower, but that doesn't make you not clean.

Dave: 00:08:05

A lot of the overdose deaths were not drug addicts.

Dave: 00:08:10

There were people in areas like mine, Massapequa, which was the number one overdose death area for the longest time.

Dave: 00:08:17

But it was prescription drugs.

Dave: 00:08:20

It was the opioids that they got from doctors.

Dave: 00:08:24

So let's change those stigmas.

Dave: 00:08:27

And that's why, speaking about mental wellness and recovery, that's why whenever I see somebody like Richard, who's been in recovery, long term recovery, you're still in recovery.

Dave: 00:08:36

But I.

Dave: 00:08:37

That's a warrior to fight through those things, that's real power.

Dave: 00:08:42

That's why when you say, when people see somebody who might have used substances and go, wow, you know, but they're a little weak, I'm like, nah, they're strong.

Dave: 00:08:52

Especially if they've gone through recovery, they're stronger than anybody else.

Host: 00:08:56

Nice, Nice.

Host: 00:08:57

So then this comes up.

Host: 00:08:58

It brings up another topic within this is how do people deal with shame and guilt?

Host: 00:09:02

Because I'm the shame and guilt in the midst of the stigma is insane sometimes.

Host: 00:09:07

So how do people deal with that?

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:09

Oh, well, it was.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:12

I had a lunch with Gary Vaynerchuk, and he told me to write my story, write a book.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:18

He told me to put all my dirty out there.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:20

Because once I put it out there, what can they say about me?

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:24

It's like the movie eight Mile.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:26

You know, once at the end, Eminem said everything about them.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:29

Nobody else could ever talk about them.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:31

So for me, that's what I did.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:32

I wrote a book.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:33

I told all my dirty.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:35

So you can't say anything I haven't said about me already.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:38

And.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:38

And I think sometimes we just have to be fearless and say, you know, I once was a drug addict, but now I have a beautiful home, a beautiful wife, three beautiful children.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:49

I go out and I eat steak and lobster whenever I want to go out.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:53

So for me, it's kind of like, well, that's who I was.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:57

That's not who I am now.

Richard Kaufman: 00:09:58

It's kind of like, I love the story that you could rob the old.

Richard Kaufman: 00:10:02

My old house because I don't live there anymore.

Host: 00:10:04

Right.

Richard Kaufman: 00:10:05

I don't live in.

Richard Kaufman: 00:10:05

I don't live in the shame, because if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be the man that I am today.

Richard Kaufman: 00:10:12

So I think sometimes we have to take.

Richard Kaufman: 00:10:14

Make our mess.

Richard Kaufman: 00:10:15

Our mess.

Richard Kaufman: 00:10:16

Our message.

Richard Kaufman: 00:10:17

Kind of like David does.

Host: 00:10:19

Nice.

Host: 00:10:19

So, David, do you have anything you want to say to that?

Dave: 00:10:21

Yeah, I mean, that's really what it comes down to, is take away that power, you know?

Dave: 00:10:26

Two weeks after my suicide attempt, I was called a bunch of names.

Dave: 00:10:30

And it broke me, but it also made my determination.

Dave: 00:10:34

That's not who I am.

Dave: 00:10:35

I mean, if you look at that person only five years ago, in five years, I've got a TEDx talk, I have a podcast, I have number of books.

Dave: 00:10:44

Again, not about me.

Dave: 00:10:46

Well, I'm not.

Dave: 00:10:46

You want to tell my story?

Dave: 00:10:47

Here you go, tell my story.

Dave: 00:10:49

You want to think what you think.

Dave: 00:10:51

Wait, you don't know me.

Dave: 00:10:52

And if you knew me then and you haven't seen me in five years, you don't know me.

Dave: 00:10:57

That's the thing, is you can do it.

Dave: 00:10:59

And what I was saying before is rear view mirror thinking.

Dave: 00:11:02

You know, when we drive our car, we're looking at the windshield, it's much bigger.

Dave: 00:11:07

Rear view mirror thinking is really small, is, hey, and it's behind you.

Dave: 00:11:12

We don't drive going backwards.

Dave: 00:11:14

We drive only going forward.

Dave: 00:11:16

And that's what I do.

Dave: 00:11:17

I don't mind.

Dave: 00:11:17

You want to ask me questions about it.

Dave: 00:11:19

The only thing I won't talk about is how I attempted suicide.

Dave: 00:11:24

Other than that, I'll talk to you about my suicide attempt.

Dave: 00:11:26

I'll talk to you about my feelings around it.

Dave: 00:11:29

I'll talk to you about my other mental health struggles because that's how I grew and I'm comfortable with it now.

Dave: 00:11:35

There's this still stuff I'm not comfortable with because it involves other people and I don't want to talk again.

Dave: 00:11:42

We don't.

Dave: 00:11:42

I don't want to tell anybody else's story.

Dave: 00:11:44

I could tell you from my perspective and.

Dave: 00:11:47

But the answer is, man, I want my story out there.

Dave: 00:11:51

That's why I love being on podcasts like yours Richard's, because you never know who's going to hear it and how.

Dave: 00:11:57

I know that is my talk.

Dave: 00:12:00

I don't think it was a performance that I would have liked to give.

Dave: 00:12:03

If I would give it, today would be completely different.

Dave: 00:12:05

But where I'm going with that is when I did it four years ago, I had families that reached out to me who needed to hear that message.

Dave: 00:12:13

I'm like, how'd they even hear it?

Dave: 00:12:16

It didn't matter.

Dave: 00:12:17

You never know where that one person is.

Dave: 00:12:19

This is a saying in some of the Jewish learnings which says, if you save one person, you have saved the world.

Dave: 00:12:27

So if I could save one person and then I'm good.

Host: 00:12:31

Sweet.

Host: 00:12:32

So, so then this brings up a good question because both of you guys tend to be very type A, direct, hard charging people, right?

Host: 00:12:38

And I love the dynamics and the depth of your stories.

Host: 00:12:42

I love it.

Host: 00:12:44

So then my question comes, and Richard, we're going to start with you on this one.

Host: 00:12:47

So my question then becomes, what about people who aren't type A that just can't decide?

Host: 00:12:52

We'll just go do it.

Host: 00:12:53

Because you guys are like, yeah, just do it.

Host: 00:12:54

Just go tell your story.

Host: 00:12:55

What about some of the other people that are more passive or more type B or I think, what is it, C or whatever it is after, who aren't direct?

Host: 00:13:03

What would you say to those guys to help them make that transition, to deal with that shame and guilt?

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:07

Well, for me, you know, I wasn't that type A guy.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:12

And the first time I actually went to a meeting was it was court ordered and I was still drunk and hung over and in that meeting, and I was as timid as can be.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:25

And I'm 20 years old and hanging, hanging out, drinking nasty cookies and drinking stale coffee and listening to these guys.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:33

And that's when I found a home.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:36

But my sponsor told me, just sit down and shut up.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:39

You don't know anything.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:40

And just listen, get there early, make coffee and stay late.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:44

So for me, I was the type C or D personality.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:48

I didn't get that way until.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:50

Until speaking a lot, because the only way you're going to be a great speaker is speaking a lot.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:55

And so for me, I spoke in a lot of Jails, institutions.

Richard Kaufman: 00:13:58

But I was afraid to even speak up and tell my story.

Richard Kaufman: 00:14:01

When I got sober, I think it took me almost a year just to speak up in a meeting.

Richard Kaufman: 00:14:06

So I am that type A personality and the type D personality sometimes in the same day.

Host: 00:14:13

That's.

Host: 00:14:14

That's fascinating.

Host: 00:14:14

That's.

Host: 00:14:15

I love it.

Host: 00:14:16

So.

Host: 00:14:16

So do it until it becomes natural to you.

Host: 00:14:20

So I love how that.

Host: 00:14:21

How you're talking about that.

Host: 00:14:22

David, what would you say to that?

Dave: 00:14:24

Yeah, you know, we always talk about my bat, right?

Dave: 00:14:27

You guys always think it's the violence.

Dave: 00:14:28

It's about bringing awesome thoughts.

Dave: 00:14:30

And really what it is, is finding the balance.

Dave: 00:14:32

When I talk about baseball, it's about when you hit the baseball bat.

Dave: 00:14:35

It's finding your balance.

Dave: 00:14:37

So, like, even for me, like, here on a podcast, yeah, my energy is going to be a little high, but there's plenty of times when I'm by myself trying to be really, really quiet.

Dave: 00:14:45

Like, no TV or just the dog.

Dave: 00:14:47

And I.

Dave: 00:14:48

I ride in my car sometimes with the radio off.

Dave: 00:14:50

I've had friends get in the car, and they're like, dude, what are you, a monk?

Dave: 00:14:53

And I'm like, sometimes I need to be.

Dave: 00:14:56

I mean, again, when I go to conferences, yeah.

Dave: 00:15:00

When I'm out my room, you know, I might be higher energy.

Dave: 00:15:03

I want to use my energy differently.

Dave: 00:15:06

I know how to balance it.

Dave: 00:15:08

And I also know there's times when.

Dave: 00:15:10

At night when everybody's starting to get going, and I'm like, no, I need to just go back to my room to at least reset myself.

Dave: 00:15:16

Learning how to reset yourself.

Dave: 00:15:18

Much like that little hand gesture I was talking about before in the green room.

Dave: 00:15:22

That's so powerful is being able to acknowledge it.

Dave: 00:15:26

I don't know that.

Dave: 00:15:26

And maybe I'll ask Richard and yourself.

Dave: 00:15:30

Prior.

Dave: 00:15:30

Like, when we.

Dave: 00:15:31

When we were doing the things that were less good, I didn't always control myself.

Dave: 00:15:35

I was just like, all right, man, this is what I'm doing.

Dave: 00:15:37

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Dave: 00:15:38

I mean, again, growing up, my.

Dave: 00:15:40

My nickname was Kid Ego.

Dave: 00:15:42

You know, I was that guy.

Dave: 00:15:43

At times, I got my butt kicked, but I still was Kid Ego.

Dave: 00:15:47

You know, people talked about me, and it hurt me.

Dave: 00:15:50

Kid Ego.

Dave: 00:15:52

It's okay.

Dave: 00:15:53

When I say my suicide attempt, Kid Ego died.

Dave: 00:15:55

That's when you have to tell your kids you guys are fathers.

Dave: 00:15:58

When you have to tell your kids you attempted suicide, man, there's no ego there, buddy.

Dave: 00:16:04

You know, there were teenage girls, but for me, there's no ego there.

Dave: 00:16:08

I had to learn, and now I've learned.

Dave: 00:16:11

It Triggers me and acknowledging.

Dave: 00:16:13

And I just was talking to somebody about that.

Dave: 00:16:15

I go, it's beautiful in the world when you can see it moving differently, when you see the trouble and people pushing your buttons.

Dave: 00:16:22

Maybe people, family, especially around the holiday, you're pushing buttons and you're like, yeah, all right, that's on you, man, not on me.

Dave: 00:16:30

You don't have to say those words.

Dave: 00:16:31

But if you could think that and react differently, there's a superpower.

Richard Kaufman: 00:16:36

I can go sit at a Richard Branson event and go get lost in the back row, but I can hit my music mentally and I can be on the stage at the same time.

Richard Kaufman: 00:16:47

So it all depends.

Richard Kaufman: 00:16:48

It all depends on the situation, because sometimes, you know, if I go to events, I want to be the dumbest guy in the room.

Richard Kaufman: 00:16:56

This way I can learn everything.

Richard Kaufman: 00:16:58

I don't want to be the smartest guy in any room, because that way I'm not learning.

Richard Kaufman: 00:17:02

I already know what I know, but I don't know what Jim and I don't know what Dave know.

Richard Kaufman: 00:17:07

So I think sometimes it'll.

Richard Kaufman: 00:17:08

It's in the military, we call it situational awareness.

Host: 00:17:12

Right.

Richard Kaufman: 00:17:12

So you just, you know, there's a place in a time, I think, for everything there is.

Host: 00:17:17

So.

Host: 00:17:17

So this brings up a good question, and we're going to start shifting gears a little bit here, too, because I want to go from, you know, we started off with mental health, and because it's a huge topic, very near and dear to my heart, and move into what you guys do, respectively, for, you know, the communities in the world.

Host: 00:17:34

Do you find.

Host: 00:17:36

And David, we'll start with you on this one.

Host: 00:17:37

Do you find that your stories that you're talking about here is what fueled you to start your business?

Host: 00:17:44

Or was there another catalyst that started and then this just kind of merged with it?

Dave: 00:17:49

Yeah, it never started that way.

Dave: 00:17:51

You know, like I said, when I was going through my.

Dave: 00:17:53

I got to college and was a.

Dave: 00:17:56

Got my degree in behavioral science, whatever that was worth, but I was working in the legal industry, so it was completely two different worlds.

Dave: 00:18:03

And then when I got myself into a deep situation, I went to see a mental health professional and I learned some techniques, and it all started coming back to me.

Dave: 00:18:11

Alignment.

Dave: 00:18:12

You know, again, that where God comes into it, starts aligning you.

Dave: 00:18:16

You know, he kind of nudged me that way.

Dave: 00:18:18

I still stayed with my ear, but I was diving into assisting people with mental wellness.

Dave: 00:18:25

And, you know, I thought I was taking care of myself.

Dave: 00:18:28

And then, you know, we just know sometimes, like, I don't have to do that.

Dave: 00:18:32

I know what to do, but it doesn't help us get where we need to.

Dave: 00:18:36

And I wasn't taking care of myself and eventually led to my suicide attempt with a lot of different stories.

Dave: 00:18:44

That's when God took the bat to me and was like, it's time to wake up now.

Dave: 00:18:48

Stop messing up with time and stop getting distracted.

Dave: 00:18:51

Boom.

Dave: 00:18:52

And I woke up.

Dave: 00:18:54

I mean, I was told I have this story, and that made me focus.

Dave: 00:18:59

And even then, in my business, talking about mental wellness, as you said earlier, is a real struggle.

Dave: 00:19:06

People don't want to hear it, or there's a few people that do are still struggling themselves.

Dave: 00:19:11

We're looking for those branches.

Dave: 00:19:13

Well, when I started writing my story, writing the stories in my books, which are not about me, I have four fiction books right now and a few others coming out very shortly.

Dave: 00:19:25

Because during the pandemic, the worst thing that could have happened was I was alone.

Dave: 00:19:29

I just started doing writing.

Dave: 00:19:31

I started diving into myself, and I learned how to be comfortable with myself most of the time.

Dave: 00:19:37

And that's where my business has turned into shift.

Dave: 00:19:39

I'm a FedEx speaker.

Dave: 00:19:41

I'm a DTM in Toastmasters.

Dave: 00:19:43

So I know how to speak, I know what to do.

Dave: 00:19:46

And then by writing, people want to get their stories out.

Dave: 00:19:49

They're afraid.

Dave: 00:19:50

And because of my mental wellness background, I can help you overcome the challenges and obstacles of writing, getting on stages, or then really taking it to that next level.

Dave: 00:20:01

As Richard said, you're a speaker.

Dave: 00:20:03

You got to speak.

Dave: 00:20:04

Get your own podcast.

Host: 00:20:05

Good stuff, Richard.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:08

Well, I'm not as smart as Mr.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:10

David.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:11

I'm not as.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:11

I'm a ninth grade dropout.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:13

I don't.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:14

I didn't even.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:14

I don't even have a GED, you know, but I've read over 6, 000 books.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:19

I got 18 books going right now, plus two audiobooks.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:23

I'm an accidental podcaster.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:24

This was never supposed to happen.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:26

I was with gnc and I would just try a new product and I'd make a podcast about it.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:32

I'd be like, yeah, this one tastes like ass, but it works great.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:36

And people started listening to it.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:38

And then when I got hurt on duty and I lost 80 of my vision, I had nothing else going for me.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:45

18 months I sat in darkness and in silence until somebody says, hey, why don't you hit that record button again about what you're going through?

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:53

Somebody else is going through the same thing.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:55

So that's how the whole podcast began.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:57

And I got to thank Mr.

Richard Kaufman: 00:20:58

Gary Vaynerchuk.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:00

He's the one that started.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:01

He got.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:01

He came up with the podcast, the Comeback Coach.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:04

He came up with the name, he came up with all that stuff.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:08

If it wasn't for Gary Vee, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:10

But now it's just about paying it forward and helping people struggling in life or business.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:17

Because whether you're the CEO or the janitor, we're all struggling with the same stuff.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:22

It's just sometimes at different levels.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:24

So that's all I'm doing.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:26

I'm the hope dealer now.

Richard Kaufman: 00:21:27

I went from dope dealing to hope dealing.

Host: 00:21:30

So I still love that.

Host: 00:21:32

When you started using that tagline, man, I was like, dude, that's dope.

Host: 00:21:35

You see what I did right there?

Host: 00:21:36

But that was awesome, man.

Host: 00:21:37

I was like, that's great.

Host: 00:21:39

So.

Host: 00:21:40

But I do appreciate both of y'all's stories because, you know, what you guys are dealing with is what a lot of the listeners deal with.

Host: 00:21:47

And the difference is, is you're here speaking about it with courage, while a lot of people will never do that.

Host: 00:21:52

And I.

Host: 00:21:52

And that's a shame because everybody's story is important.

Host: 00:21:56

So with that being said, so what do you find?

Host: 00:21:59

Let's talk about some of the positives.

Host: 00:22:00

Like, what do you find in the spaces that you're in?

Host: 00:22:04

Some of the wins, like, give.

Host: 00:22:05

Give us like a win that you've seen.

Host: 00:22:07

Like, man, this was awesome.

Host: 00:22:08

And why I do what I do.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:10

Well, for me this week, I'm building.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:13

I building my own podcast studio in the back.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:15

I just got notified yesterday or the day before that I was ranked right below Ed my let's podcast.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:24

And then a week before, I was ranked right below Alex Hormozi's podcast.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:30

So sometimes I think that, you know, and I've been on list same.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:34

The same list as Gary Vaynerchuk, Tim Ferriss.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:38

So for me, it's kind of like the people that I look up to now, I'm actually can see is kind of as a level.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:45

I mean, but then there's Joe Rogan.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:48

That's where I'm shooting for next.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:50

So I'm trying to be the GI Joe Rogan.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:53

So, you know, for me, it's, It's.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:55

It's not about bragging because it's.

Richard Kaufman: 00:22:58

It's all him.

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:00

I tell everybody it's all God.

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:03

God's doing it all.

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:05

I'm just trying to do what he tells me to do.

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:09

And just like, you know, I live in a six.

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:11

I went from being.

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:12

Living In a crack house three miles away from my house.

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:15

My house is like, almost worth, like, almost $700,000.

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:19

I got three brand new cars and I went on six vacations this year.

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:23

But it's not me, it's him, right?

Richard Kaufman: 00:23:26

And as long as I give him the glory and give him the honor, then I'm always going to be blessed and I'm always going to be highly favored.

Host: 00:23:33

That's awesome, David.

Dave: 00:23:35

Yeah.

Dave: 00:23:35

No, so God, you know, start off with the God, right?

Dave: 00:23:38

It all is.

Dave: 00:23:39

I.

Dave: 00:23:39

I used to say I grew up again in the Jewish faith.

Dave: 00:23:42

And I remember in college trying to ask this girl out, right?

Dave: 00:23:46

And she goes, you're not Jewish enough.

Dave: 00:23:48

And I've always heard that in my head.

Dave: 00:23:49

And so that's why when I.

Dave: 00:23:50

Until this year, I didn't really embrace my relationship with God.

Dave: 00:23:55

I was always believing that I was not worthy of God in a lot of different ways.

Dave: 00:24:02

And then this year, I was given some advice.

Dave: 00:24:05

I was in a conference and I heard, and I want everybody to think about this is they always talk about free will.

Dave: 00:24:12

What if you gave back free will to God?

Dave: 00:24:15

What if you really trusted.

Dave: 00:24:17

Not just like, all right, I'll trust you.

Dave: 00:24:19

Is the sun going to come out?

Dave: 00:24:20

Yeah, the sun's going to come out.

Dave: 00:24:21

You just might not see it because they're clouds.

Dave: 00:24:23

What if you really gave almost every decision?

Dave: 00:24:26

You know, it's like that movie.

Dave: 00:24:27

Yes, man.

Dave: 00:24:27

Right.

Dave: 00:24:28

Give it to.

Dave: 00:24:29

Give it to God.

Dave: 00:24:30

I've done that this year.

Dave: 00:24:31

And the successes that I've had, when you ask me about success, God puts the right people in your pocket.

Dave: 00:24:38

God puts the right people in your way, man.

Dave: 00:24:41

I got to tell you, that's why he asked me earlier, how am I doing?

Dave: 00:24:44

I go, any better?

Dave: 00:24:45

I'd be twins.

Dave: 00:24:46

The opportunities that are coming.

Dave: 00:24:48

And my win, one of my wins was just recently my friend who's 88.

Dave: 00:24:53

I know, about eight or nine years, and she says, dave, I need to get my book out.

Dave: 00:24:57

I go, okay, let's do it.

Dave: 00:24:59

We started writing and working together, and she starts crying, and I go, oh, I'm sorry, stop.

Dave: 00:25:05

She goes, no, no.

Dave: 00:25:06

You're the only person that I've ever met in 88 years that can understand my story exactly the way I want to tell it and be able to get it out.

Dave: 00:25:17

And you allowed me that safe space to tell my story the way I want to, not the way we're going to tell it when the book comes out.

Dave: 00:25:25

And that's what it is.

Dave: 00:25:27

Everybody wants their story.

Dave: 00:25:29

I will tell you that Most people, because I've sat with a lot of people in recovery or still using that, they want their story out.

Dave: 00:25:38

They don't want that lifestyle, but it's coming from somewhere else.

Dave: 00:25:43

I remember one night working with somebody, and he goes, dave, you're gonna be upset with me.

Dave: 00:25:47

I go, why am I gonna be upset with you?

Dave: 00:25:48

I just used.

Dave: 00:25:49

I go, you're sitting here in front of me, aren't you?

Dave: 00:25:52

I go, you were a winner today because you chose that while you still were doing less good behavior, you went to seek somebody to help you through that.

Dave: 00:26:02

And that's where you tell that story.

Dave: 00:26:04

There's a famous story about the man who's caught in a hole, and the first time they go down, they ask their friend, and their friend gives them some advice, but it really isn't anything.

Dave: 00:26:14

Just pick yourself up.

Dave: 00:26:15

You'll get out of that hole.

Dave: 00:26:16

Then you might go to religion, and religion is great, but they might just send a prayer.

Dave: 00:26:21

Well, prayers are going to hit you.

Dave: 00:26:23

God will hit you with the right message.

Dave: 00:26:25

When you're ready to listen, then you have somebody like Richard who jumps in that hole, like me, like Jim who jumps in that hole and goes.

Dave: 00:26:33

And then you think, we're both stuck.

Dave: 00:26:36

But the magic with all three of us is we know how to climb out of that hole.

Dave: 00:26:41

We know the way out because we've done it.

Dave: 00:26:43

As Richard was talking about earlier.

Dave: 00:26:44

That's why I don't like calling myself a coach.

Dave: 00:26:46

I'm a mentor.

Dave: 00:26:47

I've been through it.

Dave: 00:26:48

You know, you got a story.

Dave: 00:26:49

I'm not trying to go story for story.

Dave: 00:26:52

Most of people's stories are going to be worse than mine.

Dave: 00:26:54

But I understand where you are, that empathy of meeting where we are, that's where the power is.

Dave: 00:27:00

And when you can meet somebody where they are, there's a lot of things.

Dave: 00:27:03

Goes back to what we were talking about earlier, is how can you be quiet and learn just by listening?

Dave: 00:27:09

Right.

Dave: 00:27:09

You know, in those rooms.

Dave: 00:27:10

I've been in those rooms.

Dave: 00:27:12

You listen to the story.

Dave: 00:27:14

Part of the story is that taking the power away from the negative part of it, put some energy into it, and energy leads to you, to God.

Dave: 00:27:23

And God is all about love.

Dave: 00:27:24

Anything else is about man.

Host: 00:27:27

That's good stuff, both of y'all, and so do you.

Host: 00:27:29

Let me just take a moment for here to you guys who are listening right now as we.

Host: 00:27:33

As we start to close out this episode.

Host: 00:27:35

Make sure you follow these guys.

Host: 00:27:36

They are both powerhouses.

Host: 00:27:39

And in the show notes, everything's gonna be linked in the show notes.

Host: 00:27:41

And we just want to say thank you for listening up to this far.

Host: 00:27:44

And as we start closing down, I do have two questions, one of them, which if you know the show is going to be a wisdom bomb, so good to give you the heads up coming in there.

Host: 00:27:52

I do wisdom bomb every day.

Host: 00:27:53

And so that's just a short little message that people, a portable truth that people can take with them.

Host: 00:27:58

So I'm going to ask you both in a second, give me a portable truth, a wisdom bomb that people can walk off the show with.

Host: 00:28:04

But before I do that, I want to ask you, because we, we've gone on a journey today.

Host: 00:28:09

We've talked about mental health, we talked about what you guys do, we talked about some successes.

Host: 00:28:14

And so how do you guys specifically, and it don't matter which one of you guys start, how do you guys not quit?

Host: 00:28:21

Like when frustrations get too high or you're just in that space because everybody falls in that space sometimes, how do you not quit?

Richard Kaufman: 00:28:29

I'll go first if you don't mind.

Richard Kaufman: 00:28:31

This may sound kind of, kind of morbid, but then I was going through my wallet yesterday because I was doing some stuff with my mother and I wrote my own obituary.

Richard Kaufman: 00:28:40

And I look at my obituary every day and in it it says, richard Kaufman, you know, dies at 80 or 100.

Richard Kaufman: 00:28:49

But he's a loving father, he's a loving husband, he's devoted, he's loyal to his friends and his family.

Richard Kaufman: 00:28:55

He's a five time best selling authority.

Richard Kaufman: 00:28:58

He's all these things.

Richard Kaufman: 00:28:59

And so for me, when I want to quit, I pull out my obituary and say, well, if I quit, I'm not going to be that guy that I just wrote about.

Richard Kaufman: 00:29:08

And I think, I think, you know, because I think once you find that's why I love Dean Graziosi's book.

Richard Kaufman: 00:29:14

I love when, when he talks about the seven whys.

Richard Kaufman: 00:29:17

You know, when you find out what your why is and if you know what your why is, then when things get tough, you're not going to quit because your why is stronger than your quit.

Host: 00:29:27

That's good.

Dave: 00:29:28

For me, it's growing up, my parents used to say, I'm done, right?

Dave: 00:29:31

They would say that all the time.

Dave: 00:29:33

And I didn't realize how much of that carried with me.

Dave: 00:29:36

But I've also now learned I'm done for now, right?

Dave: 00:29:41

It's a moment.

Dave: 00:29:42

So if something happens to you in a moment, that doesn't mean the rest of your life, you don't need to carry that on the rest of Your life.

Dave: 00:29:51

So for now, when I say, I'm done, yeah, I might be done.

Dave: 00:29:53

And I walk away.

Dave: 00:29:54

And about 10 minutes later, I get that burning desire.

Dave: 00:29:57

Same thing.

Dave: 00:29:58

After my suicide attempt, I wanted to be a TEDx speaker.

Dave: 00:30:01

I wanted to be more.

Dave: 00:30:02

And I was like, God, what do I do?

Dave: 00:30:05

How are you going to lead me?

Dave: 00:30:06

Like, I am the lowest.

Dave: 00:30:07

Nobody should see me.

Dave: 00:30:08

I should dig a hole and all those things.

Dave: 00:30:11

And God's gonna.

Dave: 00:30:13

God basically said, all right, I'm gonna plant you.

Dave: 00:30:15

Okay?

Dave: 00:30:15

When we plant you, it gets dark.

Dave: 00:30:17

You're gonna have to go through some dark.

Dave: 00:30:19

Are you brave enough to go through some.

Dave: 00:30:21

Some of the darkness?

Dave: 00:30:21

I said, God, I'm with you.

Dave: 00:30:24

And that's really what it is, is how we see going forward.

Dave: 00:30:27

Are you okay if you stopped doing what you do is there.

Dave: 00:30:31

You poured everything out in the universe.

Dave: 00:30:34

And I'm like, no, even today, I.

Dave: 00:30:36

I'm still pouring because I think of something else.

Dave: 00:30:40

I get a.

Dave: 00:30:40

I get a message.

Dave: 00:30:41

I get a vision.

Dave: 00:30:42

I get something.

Dave: 00:30:43

You know, it might not be God.

Dave: 00:30:44

It might just be me.

Dave: 00:30:45

I don't.

Dave: 00:30:46

You know, I don't know.

Dave: 00:30:47

But the trust is what we do with it.

Dave: 00:30:51

And if you are okay with just stopping, then stop.

Dave: 00:30:54

But until you find that other mark, you know, I talk about it, and I don't want to take up much more time, but the spark of the Phoenix, that's what always got me back.

Dave: 00:31:03

Everybody believes the Phoenix dies.

Dave: 00:31:06

It does not.

Dave: 00:31:07

It's in the Bible.

Dave: 00:31:08

It does not die.

Dave: 00:31:09

God has granted the Phoenix ultimate life.

Dave: 00:31:12

Right?

Dave: 00:31:13

It was in the story of Adam and Eve as well as in Noah.

Dave: 00:31:17

But it doesn't die.

Dave: 00:31:18

It turns to ashes.

Dave: 00:31:19

And that's why we think it died.

Dave: 00:31:21

And what reignited is the spark of God.

Dave: 00:31:24

And that's one of the questions I ask when I talk to people.

Dave: 00:31:27

Do you believe you still have the spark of God?

Dave: 00:31:29

You might not feel it.

Dave: 00:31:30

You believe you have it.

Dave: 00:31:31

If you believe you have it, that's what can always turn you up.

Host: 00:31:35

Sweet.

Host: 00:31:36

All right, so with that being said, we're going to go ahead and, you know, as we land the plane, said, wisdom bomb.

Host: 00:31:41

So a portable truth.

Host: 00:31:43

So let's go start with you, Richard.

Host: 00:31:44

What is a wisdom bomb that you can leave for the audience?

Richard Kaufman: 00:31:47

Well, every year I have my own.

Richard Kaufman: 00:31:50

Today I decide Mental Health Summit.

Richard Kaufman: 00:31:52

This year it's going to be April 7th.

Richard Kaufman: 00:31:54

It's going to be virtual.

Richard Kaufman: 00:31:55

And the reason why I call it that is because the three most important words in the English language are.

Richard Kaufman: 00:32:02

Today I decide.

Richard Kaufman: 00:32:04

I decide or we decide if we're going to be a victor or a victim.

Richard Kaufman: 00:32:09

Every morning we get it, we wake up, we get another chance to be a victim of our past or the victor of our present and our future.

Richard Kaufman: 00:32:19

So what are you guys, including talking about the audience too?

Richard Kaufman: 00:32:23

What are you guys deciding to do today?

Richard Kaufman: 00:32:26

Do you want to be the victim or the victor?

Richard Kaufman: 00:32:29

It's your choice, David.

Dave: 00:32:31

Yeah, I'm just gonna say think about a butterfly.

Dave: 00:32:34

A butterfly is so powerful.

Dave: 00:32:37

Butterfly started as a caterpillar, turned into the butterfly.

Dave: 00:32:41

That's an ugly process if you don't know what it is.

Dave: 00:32:44

They get into that cocoon, it become, they, they become liquid, they turn into something, and then it becomes a butterfly.

Dave: 00:32:51

But the really trick about the butterfly also is it doesn't realize how beautiful its wings are, how powerful its wings are.

Dave: 00:32:59

And that's from everybody else seeing it, because it doesn't care.

Dave: 00:33:04

It knows who it, who it is.

Dave: 00:33:06

And when the storms get really tight, what does a butterfly do?

Dave: 00:33:09

It hides.

Dave: 00:33:10

It knows the power of where it needs to go to go back into itself.

Dave: 00:33:15

So just think about, while you're going through the toughest parts of your life, think about a butterfly and know that you're a butterfly.

Dave: 00:33:21

If you're in what stage you're in, you could be flying.

Dave: 00:33:25

You could be in that metamorphosis stage when it's really gooey, or you could be a caterpillar just walking along, figuring things out.

Dave: 00:33:32

All of those stages are powerful.

Host: 00:33:34

So with that being said, guys, how do we find you?

Host: 00:33:37

Let's, let's, let's make sure the audience can connect with each one of you guys.

Host: 00:33:41

So, David, you go first.

Host: 00:33:43

How do we find you?

Dave: 00:33:44

All right, I'm on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn.

Dave: 00:33:47

The great thing about the last name she met Ski.

Dave: 00:33:49

We ain't too many of us.

Dave: 00:33:51

So if you see a David Chemetzky, it's going to be me.

Dave: 00:33:54

I think I might be the only David Chemitzky in the world.

Dave: 00:33:57

You know, it's David Chametzky dot com.

Dave: 00:33:59

Check out my podcast, Peace, Love and bring a Bat.

Dave: 00:34:03

And it's all about bringing awesome thoughts and being authentic today.

Host: 00:34:07

Sweet.

Host: 00:34:08

David.

Host: 00:34:08

Richard.

Richard Kaufman: 00:34:09

Well, like.

Richard Kaufman: 00:34:11

And I felt I followed Gary Vaynerchuk's teachings and you can always look for vertical momentum.

Richard Kaufman: 00:34:18

We are on the first 12 pages of Google.

Richard Kaufman: 00:34:21

So even if you just Google vertical momentum, we're on the first 12 pages.

Richard Kaufman: 00:34:25

We're on 36 different platforms.

Richard Kaufman: 00:34:28

So wherever you're at, we're at.

Host: 00:34:30

So that's awesome.

Host: 00:34:31

So with that being said to the listener, thank you so much for getting to this part of the episode.

Host: 00:34:35

We appreciate you, David Richard.

Host: 00:34:37

We thank you so much for having an impromptu paddle.

Host: 00:34:40

We started off with solo but ended up as a panel.

Host: 00:34:43

So I think I appreciate that.

Host: 00:34:44

Thank you.

Host: 00:34:45

And then and again to the listener.

Host: 00:34:47

All of this will be in the show notes because we're going to make it the easiest we can make it so you can find these guys and I highly, highly, highly encourage you to connect with each one of them, hit them up on the socials, check their podcast out because they are powerhouses and your life will be different as you listen.

Host: 00:35:03

And with that being said, you have been listening to Grace in the Grind where we're here to equip, to empower and to encourage you to do all that God has called you to.

Host: 00:35:10

Thank you so much for hanging out with us and we'll see you on a future episode.

Jim Burgoon: 00:35:14

This has been Grace in the Grind.

Jim Burgoon: 00:35:17

Whether you're a Christian leader looking for guidance or an entrepreneur seeking inspiration, it's Jim's passion to equip and encourage you.

Jim Burgoon: 00:35:25

Make sure to check out Jim's solo episodes where he shares practical leadership insights grounded in a biblical perspective.

Jim Burgoon: 00:35:33

We hope you've enjoyed the show.

Jim Burgoon: 00:35:35

If you did, make sure to like, rate and review and we'll be back soon.

Jim Burgoon: 00:35:40

But in the meantime, find us on social media LeadWithJim and you can also hit the website at www.leadwithjim.com.

Jim Burgoon: 00:35:50

take care of yourself and we'll see you next time on Grace in the Grind.